Smells like DeWALT Spirit
So, looks like I got a little information on the new DEWALT line of Lithium Ion 36 Volt tools. As you can see from the image they look like they are calling the line the Nirvana Li Ion and we are expecting to see them mid to late spring, probably in that month that has all the flowers.As far as the inital wave of tools they look to be releasing over the following months I think we can expect a hammer drill, a 7-1/4" circular saw, reciprocating saw, their bendy neck lantern / flashlight (these four pictured), a jigsaw, an impact driver and a rotary hammer (definitely the product that could most benefit from having 36 volt power).
It seems that their DC9360 battery will use exclusive nano-phosphate lithium-ion cells. They deliver two to three times the run-time compared with their current 18 volt batteries. DEWALT is anticipating 2000 recharge cycles on the battery, which is a significant increase. The battery is slated to be 2.4 pounds which is roughly the same weight as their current 18 volt batteries. Otherwise, it will be a slide on style, instead of the familiar pod currently in use.
The first things I notice when I look at them is how long that battery is. Looks to be about 1/3 longer than the current 18 volt batteries. This could give some of the products a little more stability when standing alone, but I worry about the battery getting in the way, a bit. As soon as we get some hands on, I'll definitely post impressions.
Some other observations that I can make from the pictures and product literature that has been released. The circular saw being a 7-1/4" design will make a lot of framers happy. They will finally get that half an inch back of cutting depth, and should have the power to use it effectively. The hammer-drill pictured has a decidedly different chuck style than what I am used to seeing from DEWALT, but from their 36 Volt subsection on their website, it looks like the above may be a prototype. The mini-site (all done in Flash) lists it simply as a self-tightening chuck. One other small detail that I have noticied: even though A123 Systems hyped a spec on the battery technology stating it was able to regain 90% of it's charge in 5 minutes, the charger DEWALT is producing is a 1 hour charger.
Again, I'll bring you more specs as I find them out. Hope that helps a little on the initial thirst for knowledge.
Labels: Dewalt
25 Comments:
hey, do you and/or brian have an rss feed? i'm intrigued by what i've read so far.
Thanks for asking... My RSS Feed is: http://blogs.toolbarn.com/mattg/atom.xml
Brian's RSS Feed lives here: http://blogs.toolbarn.com/brianm/atom.xml
I suppose we should advertise those a little, more. See what I can do to get them on the Blog homepages.
Wonderful! A new 36 volt tool line, lithium ion-that's great too, then they go and name it after a BAND where the lead singer BLOWS HIS HEAD OFF with a double gauge shotgun! What were these people thinking? I have really been looking forward to this new tool lineup-I own every 18V tool they make. But-sorry guy's- gonna have to go with Makita or Milwaukee Lithium Ion instead. I don't want to be forced to think of THAT incident every time I reach for the tool !
Yeah, I don't think DeWalt had that in mind when naming the tool, but I sure did when I saw the name. Even more so when you add in the word lithium, which is one of their more memorable songs. I wonder if someone in their marketing department was having a sick little joke at their expense.
Anyway, I think they probably meant it as the definition of the word: An ideal condition of rest, harmony, stability, or joy.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Matt
DeWalt's 18v line has plenty of power when the battery is fresh off the charger. They should have come out with a Li-ion for that line so it could be light and have a reasonable run time.
Now they want me to drop another $1000 on an even bulkyier 36v set of tools. I am not buying it. Who cares about the name. It is not like the tools play a tune when you squeeze the trigger.
One thing no cordless power tool manufacturer will advertise is that lithium-ion batteries suffer from sizable permanent capacity loss after a year or two of use, just by sitting around in storage. It's for this reason that laptop computer batteries go bad after just a few years. Read some facts on www.batteryuniversity.com or at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery.
That information about batteries is interesting, however, keep in mind that low draw battery technologies based on lithium-ion and high draw ones are quite different. There were significant development challenges to make the batteries work (i.e. not overheat and explode while charging or under hard usage).
There are advantages and disadvantages to all the types of batteries, and there is no perfect battery yet. Lithium Ion is ideal if you are using your tool frequently, need long run times and high power (or low weight, depending on which route the manufacturer took). At the current prices, it is designed for contractors, so storage shouldn't be an issue.
Regarding the 18 volt question, I think that may happen in time, but it might not happen from DeWalt. Someone else might just have to do it for them. One thing that would have to change is lithium ion tool batteries need much better air flow for cooling than NiCad, so the packs would have to be redesigned (in their current pod style batteries, the batteries in the center have very little area to dissapate heat), but still fit in the tool.
Thanks for the thoughts and for the information!
I bought the Makita 18v Li-ion kit. The batteries are great so far. Somone needs to make a converter so that I can strap my Li-ion Makita battery to my Dewalt tools. Dewalt has such a good variety of tools in that line and the Makita battery is great.
I rigged the Makita battery to my Dewalt circular saw. It worked great. An even better conversion would be a converter for the Makita 18v battery to Ryobe tools. My buddy uses Ryobe and they are so cheap to buy that they are almost disposable and they also have a great variety in their line. Ryobe brand batteries are terribe for run time and torque; I guess Dewalt is the same.
Sparky007,
Obviously, I don't recommend doing any rigging like this, but at least one power tool company has been quietly talking about doing just this very thing with their batteries. See my Put your favorite tools on lithium post for further details. So far, I can tell you it wasn't Dewalt, Makita or Ryobi (proper) that was doing it. Keep your eyes peeled for an announcement later this summer.
Thanks for the comment.
I recieved an email the other day to participate in an online survey for Dewalt. The entire survey was about whether or not I would be willing to buy an 18v Lithium battery that was compatible with the current 18v tools. It looked like the batteries will be $119(retail) with a LiIon compatible charger charger. The specs on the battery were in the neighborhood of 1lb less than the XRP's, 1600 cycles, and twice the run time. Could be a long way off but the products really looked like they had been developed, and they were just completing some market research. I for one, will be the first in line...
Zacklessin,
Thanks for the heads up. There are some concerns when it comes to making the lithium-ion batteries for existing tools.
The first being that unless the casing was redesigned slightly to allow for better and more even cooling the life of the lithium batteries could be drastically shortened. However, since the cells are smaller and hold a greater charge, if the engineers try, it should be possible to be creative with the battery layout and address those issues.
The second looks be addressed by the inclusion of the charger. It is possible to charge with a standard NiCad charger, but doing so could again seriously reduce the batteries overall lifespan. That being said, how many people are going to treat it just like they got a free second charger and not pay attention to where they are charging the new Lithium-Ion battery?
All-in-all, I hope they do it. There is a huge base of Dewalt 18V XRP tools out there, I even have a few at home. My flashlight should last about 8 hours with a lithium ion battery.
Sorry to tell you, but no NIRVANA attached. It may have been a prototype but not anymore. I can't believe they would even think about that type of association with a top of the line tool company.
put a better bulb in your flashlight, and it will last longer.
Hi, Working in this industry and for a multinational company that shall remain nameless, the new range of 36v tools is only in its infancy stage and a lot more tools will be made availible in the near future. The technology that has gone into the new batteries has been tested worldwide to meet specific areas in power, runtme, lifespand, and user friendliness.
Other brands have also been on the market for a while now, but the DeWalt system uses pupose built motors and extensive R&D to provide a quality tool at an affordable price.
After some serious consideration, battling between the "GOTTA HAVE IT" ego thing and the "Do I really need it" check book thing, I purchased the DeWalt 36 volt hammerdrill. I've been nothing but pleased with it. The first two days I used it I was remodelling a motel. After letting the battery charge for it's initial charge, I USED it. 128 1/4" holes through tile. 40+ 2-1/2" #9 stainless screws through cabinet backs, lath/plaster and into studs (I hope). 30+ 3'8" x 3" lags screws. One charge, and it kept on going. However, when this tool dies, it dies. You won't finish driving that screw or drilling that hole. When it's done, it's done. Unlike other cordless tools that "wind down" as the battery loses power, this one doesn't. It will screw/drill/turn at what feels like full power and then stop. I've been told this is a Li-On characteristic, and I didn't find it bothersome at all. There was a fresh battery waiting. I feel this is one of the best tools I've purchased this year, and I've bought A LOT of tools this year. Just thought I'd check in and leave my 2 cents. Thanks.
How long should I initially charge a DeWalt 18v XRP battery?
On charging the new battery you will want to charge it for a full cycle. With the included Dewalt charger that should be approximately an hour. Keep in mind that it generally takes 2-5 uses before you see full power out of a battery. I definitely would not recommend using the battery before charging as they are sent with a very minimal charge.
does anyone know how many amp hrs these battery packs deliver -36v for preference, but any would be useful for comparison.
I have a 36v electric bike, the VERY HEAVY lead acid battery pavk is good for 12 amp hrs - so how many dewalt 36 volt jobs would I have to hook up???
i also have a 36 volt bike, and my leadbatterys have been recharged about 150 times now since i got the bike, im allready feeling the battererys wear down, so im looking for a good 36 volt lithium with wery high amph, what is the biggest lithium amphhours kit these guys got?
these batteries are from a123systems there is 10 cells in each pack 3.6v ea 2.3ah so you get 36v 2.3ah it would take 5 packs to equal the watts but I bet you could get away with 4 because the voltage does not sag until 90% dod
these batteries have a cycle life of over 2000 cycles and a max discharge of 70 amp. Each cell weighs 70 grams. 454 grams = 1lb
so your 40cell battery pack should be 6.2 lbs if you remove the cells from there 1 lb dewalt pack housing.
I wonder why these 36 volt tools are being recalled?
The latest news I have seen these batteries are not being recalled nor have I heard any other mention of a recall.
There is, however, an ongoing court case between Black & Decker (Dewalt's parent company), MIT, and A123Systems (the commercial arm of MIT's battery research) vs. University of Texas and Hydro-Quebec (UofT's licensee) over a patent dispute on the battery technology. This case is expected to be long and complex, and essentially boils down to whether the composition of the Dewalt batteries is in violation of two deacade old patents issued to a reasearched at UofT who is a noted pioneer in battery technologies.
A123Systems have asked a judge to invalidate the previous patents, and have vigorously protested to the claim that they have esentially just added a few other metals to the existing battery technology's design. This is obviously a summary of what I have read on the matter and I offer no judgement on this matter.
The short term implication is very negligible for the Dewalt 36V battery line. In the long term, it could mean that Black & Decker will have to make a large cash settlement with UofT and Hydro-Quebec IF they are found to have violated the patent. It could also mean that Black & Decker might make changes to the battery composition if they needed to avoid a licensing fee. Obviously, all of that is FAR to early to tell.
I just purchased the dewalt 36V hammerdrill/driver and the 36V recipricating saw they are both awesome although I have burned out the electric brake on the drill in three weeks and I don't feel like I mis-treated it anyhoo, I am going to get another one and just hope to god that my original one was just made on a friday.
the tools themselves are a little awkward for getting into joist spaces and between studs with a hole saw or "hole hog" but it is still do-able, I guess it is a little incentive for getting the right angle drill, if it came in 36V.
The recipricating saw, I am this close to putting it in a white dress an walking it down the isle, I love it and would marry it if my wife would let me, the way I feel about this unit cannot be expressed in the language that I know(I'll take up french and let you know) however these tools are great and other guys at worksites are constantly asking to borrow them and use them and I don't generally have a problem with that if I know them a little and know that they won't mis-treat them
-lots of power
-long lasting battery
-jelousy of others
-weight, not an issue
-fast charge
all around my favorite tools that I carry every day
Wow, some strong feelings on the recip saw. Good to hear, though!
Yeah, the Dewalt tools have a 90 day satisfaction guarantee, so be sure to use it! Thanks for sharing your experiences!
These 36 volt batteries are the same ones used in the Killacycle electric drag bike. They have none of the disadvantages of the Li-ion batteries we are used to. www.killacycle.com check out the links to A123 systems
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